The first piece I saw of Zingaro was "Equestrian Opera", and I remember it leaving a strong impression on me. Later I went to see "Chimera", "Eclipse" and "Triptyk". Now that I think about it, I realize that I saw your performances at quite a lot of different places, such as Vienna, Belgium, and of course Aubervilliers (Zingaro’s home in the outskirts of Paris).

 

Oh, I'm sorry for chasing you around the world… (lol)

 

Well that’s not a big problem… (lol) The piece you're showing this time, "Battuta", I saw when it was first performed in Istanbul, and then again in Hong Kong, where I noticed that some details had changed. It’s yet different in Tokyo, so I wonder, is it intentional that your pieces change with locations and the number of performances?

 

Yeah, this time it’s especially the bear that keeps changing! Anyway, as we're usually performing a piece over a period of two or three years, luckily there are parts that evolve in the process. We don't necessarily notice these transformations ourselves, and I think that’s a good thing. All living matter changes naturally. There is always room on the canvas called Zingaro for performers to play around to some extent and change what they like to change. After each show we get together and discuss the ideas that popped up, exchanging opinions on what to keep and what to change. At the same time, it is important that both horses and horsemen are relaxed - basically the same as with dancers - so the performance goes more speedy, smooth and rhythmical. Rhythm is an important factor especially for this particular piece.

 

"Loungta", the piece made in collaboration with Tibetan monks that you showed on your first visit to Japan back in 2005, was a rather "quiet" affair, whereas this time’s upbeat performance reflects perfectly that overwhelming sense of speed that characterizes your work. "The acquisition of freedom, and the risks involved" is the central theme that is in my view communicated very clearly.

 

Freedom is an expression with a catch of sorts. I'm not seeing much of a meaning in the word itself, but it only means something when combined with other words, such as "freedom of expression" or "freedom of traffic" for example. The various possibilities that emerge from there are all based on the concept of autonomy in the first place, which is elemental for the "acquisition of freedom". I'm in fact very excited right now, as I'm particularly concerned about people’s reaction. The Japanese audiences received "Loungta" with a reserved and quiet attitude, which I found very moving, but this time they need to respond more aggressively. I'm really looking forward to seeing how they cope with it! Ha Ha Ha!!!

 

Man and horse on the road to freedom

 

Zingaro has very obviously been placing importance on the autonomy of the horses, and the relationship of mutual respect between man and horse while eliminating all superfluous aspects.

 

That’s right. Compared to "Chimera" and "Eclipse", where the horses were the key players, now it’s more about the trust relationship between man and horse, in addition to the advanced skills that are required from both human and animal performers.

 

You're touring with Romanian musicians this time, and the piece’s general outline is closely associated with gypsy and Roma culture. It seems to me that the "transition" and "journey" theme is one element that all your pieces share.

 

Every performance is for us a "journey", both literally and metaphorically. What I don't feel like doing, however, is trying to integrate the cultures of the places we visit into the pieces. It’s basically about internal issues, and the things that emerge from there, and that’s where all kinds of elements get involved. "Loungta" was an exception, as I was feeling the urge to tell people about Tibet during our worldwide tour.

 

What kind of "freedom" is it that your work is all about?

 

Gypsies live without a clear idea of "national borders", and without being chained by their own roots. That’s basically the image of freedom that I'm having in mind. What’s also important is the fact that Zingaro has been operating independently from any public institution, so "freedom" is perhaps a term that summarizes all our activities. Back when we started, I couldn't imagine it all to become as large as it is today, but somehow we kept it running. It was a great challenge, but now I think we have reached a level where one could speak of a "theatre company", and artistic expression on sorts involving humans and horses. This means of course that we constantly live with horses, and all the risks involved. We depend on our audiences, but as a matter of course we don't want to flatter them in our performances. I guess that’s how we have proceeded step by step on the road to freedom.

 

Transforming, yet still remaining Zingaro

 

Can you tell us about how it all began?

 

My first shows with a bunch of friends took place at cabarets with about 500 seats, where we sometimes served our audiences mulled wine. The latter we're not doing anymore… (lol) Before that I performed on the street, in Paris of course, and anywhere else where I could set up my little show tent. I drove my own truck, cooked my own meals, and kept things clean all by myself… Now it’s an assembly of outstanding talents, ranging from horsemen to technical staff and musicians who do everything for me, so giving interviews is about all that I'm contributing these days… (lol)

 

What are your plans for Japan this time?

 

I have in fact so many plans that I can't list them all up here. We're actually right in the middle of producing a new piece, and there are lots of things that I want to check out while in Japan. I'm always busy doing several things at once, including also my work for the Versailles Academy of Equestrian Arts. In addition to the Zingaro shows, last year I appeared in some sort of homage to Kurosawa Akira, and worked with Philip Glass.

 

The Japanese fans are definitely eager to witness the performance!

 

I appreciated the warm welcome in 2005 a lot, which is why I came back here. This time people will be surprised to see something completely different, but I hope they'll enjoy "Battuta" as much as they enjoyed "Loungta". The piece we're working on right now will again be a different kind of beast, so you can look forward to that too. I guess people are aware of the fact that we keep changing with every new performance…

 

What would be your choice if you were to summarize Tokyo in one word?

 

That'll have to be "Kiba". See you all in "Battuta"!